[APG Public List] Private email

eshown at comcast.net eshown at comcast.net
Tue Aug 31 21:54:46 MDT 2010

For the record:
A. I did not and would not have called you a liar. We are all human and
humans tend to remember matters differently. When someone's recollection
differs from mine, in a public way that involves me, I ask for a
clarification. I would hope that I do so tactfully. If I don't, then I would
fault myself---and others would fault me for it.
B. I was not aware that you or Larry were asked to leave the TGF-list until
well after it happened. 
In Craig's case, I am aware of his departure only because he e-mailed me
personally a short while ago. I found that message about 45 minutes ago and
responded to him personally, expressing my sincere thought that I will miss
him on the list. Since then I've received two more "mass mailings" about the
situation, with my name included on the "to" line.
I will not comment further upon either of your experiences. I would
appreciate it if you would not include me in these group mailings. Jeanette,
you and I have long known each other and I've appreciated much you have done
in the field. Craig, I known for far fewer years and only via the lists,
we've never met personally, but I have valued many of the contributions he
has made to the lists. I would prefer to remain friends and colleagues with
both of you without the drama.
Most sincerely,
Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Kilby [mailto:persisto at live.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:39 PM
To: Jeanette Daniels; APG APG Public; apgmembersonlylist-owner at apgen.org;
Larry Boswell; Elizabeth Shown Mills
Subject: Re: Private email
I know that this email will neve make it to he halls of APG except under
"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TALK" status, but thank goodness for an alternative
lise like theorgen. I really cannot fathom the thought process of (1)
censorship (20 spying on other lists and then (3) censoring twice for
posting on more than one list.  This is beyond awful and I want no truck
with peole like Kathlen who apprently have nothing better to do with their
On Aug 31, 2010, at 6:22 PM, Jeanette Daniels wrote:
> Craig,
> That's exactly how I felt when I was taken off of the TGF email list.  I
was shocked.  ESM called me a liar which completely surprised me and before
I knew it, the gang complained and threw me off.  I was not lying at all.
She just didn't like what I said about something she had written on the APG
list a while back. 
> A short time later, Larry was taken off of the TFG email list for being
too  blunt.  In other words, if they don't like the way that you part your
hair, you're gone.  
> I'm glad that you are on the TheoryGen list now.  I am obviously being
monitored as well.  I don't understand this really, but obviously the group
wants everything to stay the same and are threatened by certain people who
have differing views.  
> I don't always agree with everything said on the TheoryGen list but there
has always been thoughtful discussion without belittlement except for a few
of the group who have tried to rile things up.  Larry has let them say
whatever and others have politely let them know that they don't agree.  The
mean garbage thrown out on the APG list hasn't worked over here.
Occasionally, Larry has gotten upset with them but quickly has apologized
and removed mean-spirited emails from the archive.  
> I'm sorry about the APG leadership taking you off forever.  I think that
type of control is unwarranted.  I believe that many on both lists enjoyed
your emails about the army.  
> Jeanette
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