<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m = "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18975"> <META name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 12"><LINK rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01CB7446.7C908590"> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Cambria Math; } @font-face { font-family: Calibri; } @page WordSection1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } LI.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } DIV.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: blue; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-noshow: yes; text-underline: none; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; text-line-through: none } .MsoChpDefault { mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-style-type: export-only; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-default-props: yes } DIV.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style="tab-interval: .5in" lang=EN-US link=blue bgColor=#ffffff vLink=purple> <DIV>I certainly don't think they're "better than nothing."  I think they're a huge improvement on using names tied to a particular time and era, whether historical or modern.  Those coordinates will never change. They can be far more precise than a "place name" when that's appropriate and required.  And they can be used to generally locate a jurisdiction where a particular location within that jurisdiction is not known.  Centre the coordinates on the general town or township, using footnotes tied to the township or town level (rather than a street or particular rural address if none is known).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clients like them because they can plot their ancestral location easily, get specific or general directions to the areas.  The coordinates can be plugged into dozens of programs and mapping software.  Multiple names over time for the same location can be anchored to an unchanging set of coordinates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because it would be a new type of way of noting locations doesn't mean we should reject it out of hand.  Eventually this type of coordinate system will have to be the norm</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The "use historical name or the modern name" is a non-argument.  All place names can change over time.  Modern names are not immune to that, and I can cite dozens of modern name changes that have taken place in the last few years.  When  the city of Nepean, Carleton Co., Ontario, the town of Metcalfe, and a dozen other locales all were absorbed by the city of Ottawa, they were the modern names for various locations within them.  Now they're no more, so anything entered using the 'modern name' of Nepean is simply 'historical' reference now.  And there's a chance part of the city will break apart again.  It's happened for most places over time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but the coordinates don't change.  Tie the various name changes over time for a location to one set of coordinates and you've got something that is reliable, and will always point to the same place no matter how many name changes the place goes through (or has gone through).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It makes sense, period.  And it's a good fit with everything digital.  Instantly catalogued and accessible as maps, descriptions, and able to bring up every name associated with a local</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larry</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larry</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=eshown@comcast.net href="mailto:eshown@comcast.net">eshown@comcast.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=apgpubliclist@apgen.org href="mailto:apgpubliclist@apgen.org">apgpubliclist@apgen.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 25, 2010 2:38 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APG Public List] [APG Members] place names</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=WordSection1> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Michael wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">></SPAN>I may be in the distinct minority, but I only use gps coordinates when I am certain I have a relatively precise location. <SPAN style="COLOR: blue">�</SPAN><BR><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">></SPAN>My grandmother's 1910 birth only indicates the township in which she was born. In this instance, that's a square 6 miles on a side. I have no idea where in the township she was born (her father was a tenant farmer and I don't know the location where he rented). <SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You make a very good point, Michael. Especially so with farm families that did not own land. Tenant and sharecropping families tended to move every year or so. Even if they stayed within the same township for the duration of their working lives, thirty-six square miles makes for too large an area to arbitrarily assign coordinates. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">></SPAN>Various software and sites will assign coordinates to this location, but they are (in my opinion) arbitrarily precise. If I were to use coordinates (which I don't in this case), I would only indicate the four corners of the township. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">></SPAN>Use of GPS isn't the only scenario where more accuracy is assigned than is implied. <SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue">Agreed. While some researchers do feel that arbitrarily assigned coordinates are �better than nothing� and some trusting clients seem pleased to have them, I share your caution here.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue">Elizabeth<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-element: para-border-div; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt"> <P style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue">Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG<BR>Tennessee</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>