<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18975"> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV>There are cases where all that's known at the current time is the general location.  A township, as you describe.  But it's still useful even if they only indicate a general area because you would then cite to the whole township, rather than a precise area within that township. It would be just as "precise" as indicating the township name alone, yet has the benefit of allowing someone to find where the township is exactly (on overlays or modern maps).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you knew the exact location than the coordinates would be tagged to that precise location:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jagger's Farm (footnote linked to coordinates), Anyplace Township, Whatever County, Wyoming, USA</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you only knew the township then the coordinates would be cited to that only.  Still would be useful information that could later be used/input into a variety of programs, overlays, modern maps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't see any better way of getting around the problem of changing names, boundaries, jurisdictions.  One thing that's guaranteed is that no one is going to change lines of latitude and longitude no matter how the names etc change.  And all variations in names for a given place could be all tied to the same coordinates.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just because the GPS *can* be precise and point to an exact position on the planet, doesn't mean the coordinates can't also be used less precisely (to indicate a city, town, county etc). What part of the address carries the footnote would tell whether the coordinates were referring to a general location (town, township etc) or a very precise street address (for example)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There would have to be some rules worked out in how the coordinates were used and why, but they still offer something that remains unchanging and can also be used for multiple purposes later (directions, distances, charting movements over time etc)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Clients that I use them with really appreciate having them at hand</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larry</DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=mjnrootdig@gmail.com href="mailto:mjnrootdig@gmail.com">Michael John Neill</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=laboswell@rogers.com href="mailto:laboswell@rogers.com">LBoswell</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=stephen@stephendanko.com href="mailto:stephen@stephendanko.com">Stephen Danko</A> ; <A title=Rolgeiger@aol.com href="mailto:Rolgeiger@aol.com">Rolgeiger@aol.com</A> ; <A title=apgmembersonlylist@apgen.org href="mailto:apgmembersonlylist@apgen.org">apgmembersonlylist@apgen.org</A> ; <A title=apgpubliclist@apgen.org href="mailto:apgpubliclist@apgen.org">apgpubliclist@apgen.org</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 25, 2010 11:55 AM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APG Public List] [APG Members] place names</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>I may be in the distinct minority, but I only use gps coordinates when I am certain I have a relatively precise location. For cemeteries and locations with addresses this works particularly well. If I know where a farm is at today, the same applies. For many places, the amount of accuracy I have is minimal and I'm not able to pinpoint where an event took place. </DIV> <DIV><BR>My grandmother's 1910 birth only indicates the township in which she was born. In this instance, that's a square 6 miles on a side. I have no idea where in the township she was born (her father was a tenant farmer and I don't know the location where he rented). Various software and sites will assign coordinates to this location, but they are (in my opinion) arbitrarily precise. If I were to use coordinates (which I don't in this case), I would only indicate the four corners of the township. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Use of GPS isn't the only scenario where more accuracy is assigned than is implied. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my two cents.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 9:15 AM, LBoswell <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:laboswell@rogers.com">laboswell@rogers.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=gmail_quote> <DIV bgcolor="#ffffff"> <DIV>Given multiple options to find and locate gps coordinates in longitude/latitude why not use the name as it appears in the document, then log it under longitude and latitude.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Easy enough to find those coordinates simply from google maps.  Find the location of interest, or as close to the area as possible on google maps.  Click on link (upper right hand corner next to 'print' and 'send'), and copy the result into a  text reader or even an email. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looks like this: <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri><A href="http://maps.google.com/maps?q=54.996721,-1.663892&num=1&sll=43.4501,-87.222019&sspn=4.218381,8.195801&ie=UTF8&ll=54.996524,-1.664321&spn=0.00373,0.013036&z=17" target=_blank>http://maps.google.com/maps?q=54.996721,-1.663892&num=1&sll=43.4501,-87.222019&sspn=4.218381,8.195801&ie=UTF8&ll=54.996524,-1.664321&spn=0.00373,0.013036&z=17</A></FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri></FONT> </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Calibri>The coordinates of interest above are the first ones 54.996721,-1.663892.  Plugging those into the search line on google maps will take you to the location (in this case a street in Manchester, UK.  Those coordinates will never change, unlike the constantly evolving names for same location.  Most genealogy programs will do the same thing. </FONT></P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal>When we note a location why aren't we automatically adding the coordinates for the benefit of future researchers.  Also allows a client to pull up google maps and see exactly where the location is/was.  Or at least the closest modern approximation (if the street doesn't exist, you can normally locate its modern location on google maps by cross-referencing period sources like maps and gazetteers with the modern map).  </P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal>This has to be the way we go now, it's simply the most exact way to pinpoint a location (and it's independent of the past or current name).  More importantly it can take you to a jurisdictional level location (where you select the central point of that jurisdiction and use those coordinates), or narrow down to a specific map location.  More often now you can then overlay that modern location on Google earth with a historical map and at the same time have the modern location right in front of you.  Future researchers will always know what location is being referred to, and it's independent of language.</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal>A way of noting locations that a) will never change in the future  b). allows a unified way to catalogue a location to its various name changes over time, and c). is independent of language preferences. Given the ease of finding the coordinates for any location on the planet, it just makes sense</P> <P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt" class=MsoNormal>Larry</P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>------------------------------------<BR>Michael John Neill<BR>Casefile Clues-Genealogy How-Tos<BR><A href="http://www.casefileclues.com">http://www.casefileclues.com</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>