<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m = "http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml"><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [APG Members] [APG Public List] Source Citation study groupcommencinc soon</TITLE> <META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type> <META name=ProgId content=Word.Document> <META name=GENERATOR content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.18928"> <META name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 12"><LINK rel=File-List href="cid:filelist.xml@01CB08C9.91E05D00"> <STYLE>@font-face { font-family: Cambria Math; } @font-face { font-family: Calibri; } @page WordSection1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; } P.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } LI.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } DIV.MsoNormal { MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman","serif"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-qformat: yes; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-style-priority: 99; text-underline: single } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: blue; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none; mso-style-unhide: no; mso-style-noshow: yes; text-underline: none; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial; text-line-through: none } SPAN.SpellE { mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes } .MsoChpDefault { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-style-type: export-only; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-default-props: yes } DIV.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY style="tab-interval: .5in" lang=EN-US link=blue bgColor=white vLink=purple> <DIV>Thanks for the reply, Elizabeth</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As does my offer of participation at frequent points along the journey.  I think I've tried to explain why I really think the group needs to go a little ways down the road on its own first, find out what where our strengths and weaknesses are so that good questions can be asked of guests. Maybe we can find a way to compromise on our counter 'offers' since they ultimately serve the same purpose.  But that's more appropriately done off list.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't remember offering to 'teach your text' in that sense though.  This is a study group, not a Ph.d program.  Since EE is widely popular and the main reference book on the subject, it is going to feature in any discussion of source citations in genealogy. Probably will encourage a couple of sales (can I get a commission on them?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can't imagine you could be at every discussion or group that looks at source citations. I'd have guessed that's why you wrote a book on the subject.  None of the group members are ever going to have the kind of intimate knowledge even if the group went on for a decade. And cover to cover doesn't mean literally page by page.  I think you do have sections/chapter?  I'm not a source citation houdini.  A little realistism will be employed in this process!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EE is one of several references, but it's the main reference genealogists turn to (and alternatively maybe are even a little intimidated by). If we establish a higher level of comfort in working with source citations and with EE, the group will have succeeded.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to cast your eye over anything I write up for topic and discussion introductions, I'll be glad to send them on to you, as a courtesy and to see if I've wandered into the realm of misinterpretations and mischaracterizations, in your opinion. And a standing invitation, even on a weekly basis to come in and provide your expertise will always remain open.  If you agreed to then let the study group also work on its own and find its own way in between your periods of interaction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Definitely would invite anyone with relevant knowledge on the same basis when the group gets to the point of looking at requirements from archives, journals, and magazines, if their presence would help.  And anyone else with something to offer on the subject, including individuals who are familiar with the various 'software assistants' (I think I'll call that session "How I learned to wean myself off of Source Writer"  or equivalent :) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thanks for the interest in this project.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larry</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larry Boswell BA, PLCGS<BR><A href="http://www.TheBackstairs.com">www.TheBackstairs.com</A><BR><A href="http://thebackstairs.com/blog/">http://thebackstairs.com/blog/</A><BR>"Experts in Historical & Genealogical Research"<BR>Listowner, TheoryGen (a non-archived list)<BR><A href="http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/theorygen/">http://ca.groups.yahoo.com/group/theorygen/</A><BR>Ottawa, Ontario, Canada<BR><A href="mailto:laboswell@rogers.com">laboswell@rogers.com</A></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir=ltr> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=eshown@comcast.net href="mailto:eshown@comcast.net">eshown@comcast.net</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=APGMembersOnlyList@apgen.org href="mailto:APGMembersOnlyList@apgen.org">APGMembersOnlyList@apgen.org</A> ; <A title=APGPublicList@apgen.org href="mailto:APGPublicList@apgen.org">APGPublicList@apgen.org</A> ; <A title=transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com href="mailto:transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com">transitional-genealogists-forum@rootsweb.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:20 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APG Public List] [APG Members] Source Citation studygroupcommencinc soon</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=WordSection1> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Larry wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">>I haven't restricted anyone so far, � I've asked that people with recognized expertise not join while the group is in its formative stages, until a dynamic is established �<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">> I think I see the concept really  exploring the ideas and concepts that lie behind source citations as well as the actual application of those concepts �</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">My plan is to simply go over and over the basic approaches to analysis, essentially what you start out with in EE.   </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">but there is an important role for Elizabeth or anyone else with specific expertise if they wish to accept it.<SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The offer stands, Larry, should you wish to accept me on your list. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I do realize the challenges involved in teaching a �text� (as you describe it�but, more accurately for EE, a �reference work�) that is so immensely detailed. Knowing the extent to which teachers must be intimately familiar with whatever �texts� they teach, in order to interpret the author correctly and avoid mischaracterization, I admire and appreciate your willingness to study an 886-page EE �from front to back,� alongside that 956-page CMOS and the other archival guides you plan to cover. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">></SPAN><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">And a look later at the source citation requirements for different genealogical journals and magazines.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I trust that the editors of those journals will also be called in to participate in discussions of their requirements? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Elizabeth<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <DIV style="BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 1pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-element: para-border-div; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt"> <P style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in; mso-border-bottom-alt: solid windowtext .75pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 1.0pt 0in" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Elizabeth Shown Mills, CG, CGL, FASG<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">The Evidence Series<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in"> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 11pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">--- On Thu, 6/10/10, <A href="eshown@comcast.net">eshown@comcast.net</A> <<A href="eshown@comcast.net">eshown@comcast.net</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Larry, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">You are generous indeed to launch this study group. I note you state that it will be a �restricted group� and �not a place for those who already have a high degree of confidence in writing source citations.�<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </SPAN>You also state that you will be using EE and �going step by step through that text, from front to back.� <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">While I really do not have time to participate actively on another list, I would like to at least �be available� for times when EE is misunderstood or for the inevitable occasions when no one on the group has experience with a particular type of source that EE covers. May I subscribe also?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Elizabeth<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P> <P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>