No subject


Thu Feb 10 10:56:25 MST 2011


=D7=99=D6=B0=D7=94=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=A0=D6=B8=D7=AA=D6=B8=D7=9F =
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=3DHB&target=3DY=
%3Ahwonatan>  (Yehonatan) (contracted to =
=D7=99=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=A0=D6=B8=D7=AA=D6=B8=D7=9F =
<http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=3DHB&target=3DY=
wonatan>  (Yonatan)) meaning "YAHWEH =
<http://www.behindthename.com/name/yahweh>  has given". In the Old =
Testament <http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament>  =
Jonathan was the eldest son of Saul and a friend of David. He was killed =
in battle with the Philistines. As an English name, Jonathan did not =
become common until after the Protestant Reformation =
<http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/protestant_reformation> . A =
famous bearer was the Anglo-Irish satirist Jonathan Swift (1667-1745), =
who wrote 'Gulliver's Travels' and other works.

=20

This, of course, makes it understandable why the name doesn=E2=80=99t =
show up in early baptismal records, which were in Roman Catholic Latin!

=20

The puzzle, of course, is how they got =E2=80=9CJno=E2=80=9D from John, =
Johannes, or any of the other variations =E2=80=93 or from Jonathan, for =
that matter, but it pretty well defeats the standard =E2=80=9CJno is for =
Jonathan=E2=80=9D that we hear. Public usage, however, is what counts, =
so going to the context of the record is the only real way to find out =
whether it was =E2=80=9CJonathan=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9CJohn.=E2=80=9D

=20

Are there other examples of transposing of letters in abbreviated names?

=20

Pat Dunford

In Tucson=20

=20

=20

From: apgpubliclist-bounces+pldunford=3Dcox.net at apgen.org =
[mailto:apgpubliclist-bounces+pldunford=3Dcox.net at apgen.org] On Behalf =
Of Chad Milliner
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 9:41 AM
To: apgpubliclist at apgen.org
Subject: Re: [APG Public List] Abbreviations of given names

=20

The discussion of the Jno. abbreviation of "John" called to my mind =
something that has always puzzled me -- why?  If you include the period, =
then abbreviating John as Jno really saves no space and is the same =
number of characters.  How did this abbreviation become so commonly =
used?  There seems to me to be no obvious reason.

I suppose that if a person felt that they HAD to abbreviate "John" then =
switching the "n" and the "o" might be useful in making clear that it =
was "John" that you abbrviated and not "Jonathan".  But since John is =
such a short word, why abbreviate it at all?





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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>One thought here is that these abbreviations came from the time that =
the names were =E2=80=9CLatinized=E2=80=9D. =C2=A0Here is a list =
from:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><a =
href=3D"http://www.british-genealogy.com/parish-registers/registers-latin=
-names.html">http://www.british-genealogy.com/parish-registers/registers-=
latin-names.html</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.6pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Ioannes=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.6pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Jno.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 John =C2=A0=C2=A0 </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Abbr. of Johannes; not Jonathan. It is <em><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>always</span></em> =
John.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.6pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Joh<u>es</u> (underscore indicates superscript) =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.6pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Johannes=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'line-height:15.6pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#33333=
3'>Joannes=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Abbreviating John may not seem to save space, but abbreviating =
Johannes does.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> Note that Jonathan is <b>missing </b>and may not have had a Latin =
version. It would be interesting to check the 16-17<sup>th</sup> century =
baptismal records for a Jonathan, and follow him through life. I did =
find (at Ancestry.com baptismal records) a bunch of Jonathans and a =
couple of Jonathus and Jonathas names, but these are transcriptions, not =
the original images, so we don=E2=80=99t know what was really written =
there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Just for kicks, I checked the (British) National Archives for the =
Canterbury records from 1500-1600, since they would likely be in Latin. =
There were almost 9900 for John, only one for a Jonathan Gale alias =
Hutchins in 1560. It would be instructive, I suppose, to take a look at =
the original wills, probates and sentences to see how the names were =
abbreviated in a Latin document. There were only 27 from 1600-1650. It =
would appear from this that the use of the name Jonathan began to arise =
after 1600. Why?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>So: =C2=A0<a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/name/jonathan">http://www.behindthen=
ame.com/name/jonathan</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>J=
ONATHAN<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-7.5pt;line-height:12.75pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ge=
nder:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#111177'>=
Masculine</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-7.5pt;line-height:12.75pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Us=
age:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#444444'>=
<a href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/eng.php">English</a>, <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/ger.php">German</a>, <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/sca.php">Scandinavian</a>, <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/dut.php">Dutch</a>, <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/nmc/bibl.php">Biblical</a></span><sp=
an =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-7.5pt;line-height:12.75pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Ot=
her Scripts:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#444444'>=
<a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=3DHB&amp=
;target=3DYwonatan">=D7=99=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=A0=D6=B8=D7=AA=D6=B8=D7=9F</a> =
<b>(Ancient Hebrew)</b></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-indent:-7.5pt;line-height:12.75pt'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Pr=
onounced:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#444444'>=
JAHN-=C9=99-th=C9=99n <b>(English)</b>, YO-nah-tahn =
<b>(German)</b>&nbsp;&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/pronunciation.php">[key]</a></span><=
span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>F=
rom the Hebrew name <i><a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=3DHB&amp=
;target=3DY%3Ahwonatan">=D7=99=D6=B0=D7=94=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=A0=D6=B8=D7=AA=D6=
=B8=D7=9F</a> (Yehonatan)</i> (contracted to <i><a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/support/transcribe.php?type=3DHB&amp=
;target=3DYwonatan">=D7=99=D7=95=D6=B9=D7=A0=D6=B8=D7=AA=D6=B8=D7=9F</a> =
(Yonatan)</i>) meaning &quot;<a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/name/yahweh">YAHWEH</a> has =
given&quot;. In the <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/old_testament">Old =
Testament</a> Jonathan was the eldest son of Saul and a friend of David. =
He was killed in battle with the Philistines. As an English name, =
<i>Jonathan</i> did not become common until after the <a =
href=3D"http://www.behindthename.com/glossary/view/protestant_reformation=
">Protestant Reformation</a>. A famous bearer was the Anglo-Irish =
satirist Jonathan Swift (1667-1745), who wrote 'Gulliver's Travels' and =
other works.</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>This, of course, makes it understandable why the name doesn=E2=80=99t =
show up in early baptismal records, which were in Roman Catholic =
Latin!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>The puzzle, of course, is how they got =E2=80=9CJno=E2=80=9D from =
John, Johannes, or any of the other variations =E2=80=93 or from =
Jonathan, for that matter, but it pretty well defeats the standard =
=E2=80=9CJno is for Jonathan=E2=80=9D that we hear. Public usage, =
however, is what counts, so going to the context of the record is the =
only real way to find out whether it was =E2=80=9CJonathan=E2=80=9D or =
=E2=80=9CJohn.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Are there other examples of transposing of letters in abbreviated =
names?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Pat Dunford<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>In Tucson <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
apgpubliclist-bounces+pldunford=3Dcox.net at apgen.org =
[mailto:apgpubliclist-bounces+pldunford=3Dcox.net at apgen.org] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Chad Milliner<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 08, 2011 9:41 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> apgpubliclist at apgen.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [APG =
Public List] Abbreviations of given names<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The discussion of the Jno. abbreviation =
of &quot;John&quot; called to my mind something that has always puzzled =
me -- why?&nbsp; If you include the period, then abbreviating John as =
Jno really saves no space and is the same number of characters.&nbsp; =
How did this abbreviation become so commonly used?&nbsp; There seems to =
me to be no obvious reason.<br><br>I suppose that if a person felt that =
they HAD to abbreviate &quot;John&quot; then switching the &quot;n&quot; =
and the &quot;o&quot; might be useful in making clear that it was =
&quot;John&quot; that you abbrviated and not &quot;Jonathan&quot;.&nbsp; =
But since John is such a short word, why abbreviate it at =
all?<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>
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