[APG Public List] Death Certificates in Anguilla, BWI

SANGREENB at aol.com SANGREENB at aol.com
Fri May 7 22:07:26 MDT 2010


Hi:  I am wondering if anyone knows how to obtain a death certificate  from 
the island
of Anguilla. 
 
Or if anyone would know if there is any genealogy society there that we can 
 write to for help.
 
A request to the vital records dept. in Anguilla was not answered or  
acknowledged.
 
Thanks for any ideas.
 
Best regards,
Sandra Greenberg
Co-Founder Jewish Genealogical Society of Colorado
Presently JGSCO Librarian
APG member
Denver, CO USA
_sangreenb at aol.com_ (mailto:sangreenb at aol.com) 
 
 
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Today's Topics:

1.  Revolutionary War privateer research (Ernest Thode)
2. Re:  Online death certificate - citation help (eshown at comcast.net)
3. Re: Online death certificate - citation help  (eshown at comcast.net)


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Message:  1
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 22:38:20 -0400
From: Ernest Thode  <ernestthode at gmail.com>
Subject: [APG Public List] Revolutionary War  privateer research
To: apgpubliclist at apgen.org
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<AANLkTimOATJAfBRo8Msj9cPcNWiQJ-Dz9jHlrQRaKw6m at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type:  text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hello,

My question has to do  with Dr. Jabez True, born Hampstead, NH, who served 
as
a surgeon on a  vessel from Newburyport, MA, that was shipwrecked somewhere
on the coast of  the Netherlands during the Revolutionary War, was welcomed
by the Dutch  people and stayed there until the end of hostilities, then
to Gilmanton,  NH, where he studied medicine with a Dr. Flagg, until 1788,
when he came as  an early settler of Marietta, OH, where he then served as a
surgeon at Fort  Harmar and teacher at Campus Martius.

How can I document his privateer  service?  This was not with a military
unit, but it served the cause  of the colonists.

How can I find the ship's name or the captain's  list?

Ernie Thode
Local History & Genealogy  Libraria
Marietta, OH
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Message:  2
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 20:16:18 -0500
From:  <eshown at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [APG Public List] Online death  certificate - citation
help
To:  <apgpubliclist at apgen.org>
Message-ID:  <033401caee4c$105c4c90$3114e5b0$@net>
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Susan,

I'm weighing in late, for all the  reasons you might suppose. In the
meanwhile, several of you have chewed and  digested the issues even more 
than
I would have.  First, I'll comment  here on the broader points that you
question.

1.
Your first  example, in your original posting, is spot on for digital images
that you  consult at a website. The only modification I'd suggest would be  
to
italicize the name of the website, following the principle that  
publications
are italicized. That helps your reader to know what all the  various parts 
of
your citation represent. (And, of course, your e-mail  system turned the URL
into a hotlink and underlined it, which we would not  do in a typical
citation.)

2.
You puzzle over the differences in  the models you followed for your first
and second examplea, saying, "The  first variation treats the digital image
as an image copy; and I think the  second variation treats it as a
publication." 

Your surmise about  the first variation is correct. Your second does miss 
the
point. Look again  at 9.33 (p. 459).  Here you will find models for citing
vital record  information gleaned online. Note that the citations are 
divided
into two  groups, with the following labels used as headers for the two
groups  (italics are added below for emphasis):

.       "Citing database entries"
.          "Citing image copies of certificates"

These two labels (which are used  often throughout EE) spotlight the
difference between the two formats. Your  second example took a format for
citing databases and used it to cite  images. There are different needs and
considerations when handling each of  these. The image depicts the actual
record created by the official agency.  The database's
abstract/transcript/index-entry/whatever is a different  creation, one
produced by the database publisher. Ergo, 

.   if you are citing the database material, you lead  with a citation
to the database. You say you are using the database. Then  you i.d. the
specific detail that you took from the database and add  whatever 'citation'
the website gives you for where it got that  data.
.         If you are citing the image, you  lead with a citation to the
image. You say you are using the image. Then  you i.d. the website at which
you accessed that image and you add whatever  'citation' the website gives
you for where it got that image.

As you  know, the EE examples for online vital records cite the official
agency  website for these records. Your situation is slightly different.
Rather  than accessing the images at the official site, you accessed them at
the  FamilySearch Record Search, which introduces a few other quirks into  a
citation. I don't know whether you're working from the first or  second
edition of EE, but  issues surrounding the use of images and  database
entries at FamilySearch Record Search are discussed, with  examples, in the
second edition at pp. 53, 469, 500-01, 598-99.

More  to come (if life cooperates J).

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Shown Mills,  CG, CGL, FASG
Hendersonville, TN 


From:  apgpubliclist-bounces+eshown=comcast.net at apgen.org
[mailto:apgpubliclist-bounces+eshown=comcast.net at apgen.org]  On Behalf Of
Susan G. Johnston
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 7:35 PM
To:  apgpubliclist at apgen.org
Subject: Re: [APG Public List] Online death  certificate - citation help

...  I think the principle I'm trying  to conceptualize in my own mind is
something that would help me decide when  to place the emphasis on the
original document (citation example 1) and  when to place the emphasis on 
the
website (citation example 2).  I  know there's an art involved, but the
scientist in me says that I should be  able to identify some general
principles that usually govern when this  choice comes up.  In fact, as your
quotation below points out, one  needs to learn the principles of citation
before artistic license comes  into play.

Here is how I decide -- if it is an image (of anything),  first cite what 
the
image shows, then where it came from.

That is  what I was doing with the Ohio death certificates on FamilySearch,
too -  until I began studying the QuickSheet on citing Ancestry.com 
databases
and  images and saw how often images were treated as publications -  
basically
author/creator (frequently omitted because duplicated in the  website 
title),
"chapter title"/"database", book/website author/creator  (frequently omitted
because duplicated in the website title), book/website  title (publication
place/URL : date), pages/specific image information;  credit line.  Then, I
began to wonder if I should be doing the same  thing with the Ohio death
certificates.  After all, they are  publications - in fact, they're actually
like reprints: digital  publications of microfilm publications.



Likewise, to take this  a small step further, records from the National
Archives first cite the  specific record, then broaden the citation outward,
to the particular  collection, then the record group, then the repository 
(if
I am not  skipping a step there somewhere).

My understanding is that this format  - Document ID, date, file unit,
subseries, series, subgroup, record group,  repository - is more standard 
for
archival manuscript material; and of  course, this format may vary depending
on the citation format preferred by  the relevant archives.  It is what I 
was
doing for online images, too;  I simply started questioning whether that was
the best practice.   

Evidence Explained does seem to give us permission to choose, and  I
appreciate your sharing your reasoning for your  choice.

Regards,
Susan Johnston

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Message:  3
Date: Fri, 7 May 2010 21:28:46 -0500
From:  <eshown at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [APG Public List] Online death  certificate - citation
help
To:  <apgpubliclist at apgen.org>
Message-ID:  <033c01caee56$301fa9a0$905efce0$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="us-ascii"

Susan also wrote:
>I think the principle I'm  trying to conceptualize in my own mind is
something that would help me  decide when to place the emphasis on the
original document (citation  example 1) and when to place the emphasis on 
the
website (citation example  2).  I know there's an art involved, but the
scientist in me says that  I should be able to identify some general
principles that usually govern  when this choice comes up.  In fact, as your
quotation below points  out, one needs to learn the principles of citation
before artistic license  comes into play.

Susan, I hope my last response clarified  this.

>Here is how I decide -- if it is an image (of anything),  first cite what
the image shows, then where it came from.
>That is  what I was doing with the Ohio death certificates on FamilySearch,
too -  until I began studying the QuickSheet on citing Ancestry.com 
databases
and  images and saw how often images were treated as publications -  
basically
author/creator (frequently omitted because duplicated in the  website 
title),
"chapter title"/"database", book/website author/creator  (frequently omitted
because duplicated in the website title), book/website  title (publication
place/URL : date), pages/specific image information;  credit line.  Then, I
began to wonder if I should be doing the same  thing with the Ohio death
certificates.  After all, they are  publications - in fact, they're actually
like reprints: digital  publications of microfilm publications.

You've fingered a definite  issue that exists when using Ancestry, Footnote,
and other large sites that  offer many different collections--as opposed to 
a
relatively small site  that presents its own records and identifies them
fully, such as the state-  or county-level vital records offices.

One of the first things we  notice when we analyze offerings at the large
sites, as well as the  citations they give to their own sources, is that 
they
often change the  title of the collection that they have digitized. A second
thing we notice  is that they often (very often!) do not give us all the
information we need  to find the original at NARA (or wherever else they
digitized the  material).  

Consequently, even when we use an image, the citation  often can't lead with
a correction identification of the original record.  Under these
circumstances, the surest way to make sure that the record is  relocatable
there at Ancestry/Footnote/SimilarSite, is to follow this  pattern:

-       cite the collection name that the  website uses
-       identify it as digital images from  Ancestry/Footnote/SimilarSite
-       add URL &  date, 
-       identify the document
-     add whatever 'citation' the site gives for the source of its  source.


For example (drawing a "Reference Note" from the Ancestry  Quicksheet):

2.  "Civil War Prisoner of War  Records, 1861-1865," digital images,
Ancestry.com (http://www.ancestry.com  : accessed 22 January 2009),
unidentified manuscript register, p. 308,  headed "New Orleans, La., Roll of
Prisoners of War," entry for Louis  Rachal; citing National Archives
microfilm publication Selected Records of  the War Department Relating to
Confederate Prisoners of War, 1861-1865,  M598, roll 3.

Obviously from the above, there is no way that we could  give a correct
citation to the original NARA document. Instead, for  relocation purposes, 
we
have to cite the Ancestry collection in which the  digital image is found,
then we identify/describe the actual record as best  we can from the
information supplied to us---followed by a notation of the  incomplete
citation that Ancestry provides.


>Likewise, to  take this a small step further, records from the National
Archives first  cite the specific record, then broaden the citation outward,
to the  particular collection, then the record group, then the repository 
(if
I am  not skipping a step there somewhere).

This, of course, is the point I  just made. We can't cite the NARA document
because there are several pieces  of information we would need. As explained
at 11.1, a NARA citation calls  for the following items, which NARA needs
cited in exactly this  order:

-       Item of interest, with relevant  names, item description, dates, 
page
numbers
-        File Unit Name, date (or inclusive dates);
-        Series Name, inclusive dates;
-       Subgroup Name,  inclusive dates;
-       Record Group Name, inclusive  dates, record group number; and
-       Archive,  location.

>My understanding is that this format - Document ID, date,  file unit,
subseries, series, subgroup, record group, repository - is more  standard 
for
archival manuscript material; and of course, this format may  vary depending
on the citation format preferred by the relevant archives.  

Yes. EE 3.1 (pp. 116-18) covers this. It is the format long used  for
reference notes by national, state, and academic archives in the U.S.  It's
not the format that has been typically used for local government  materials
in the U.S. and it's not the format conventionally used  throughout most of
Europe.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth Shown Mills,  CG, CGL, FASG

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