[APG Public List] "First Papers"
persisto at live.com
Thu Jul 29 07:28:30 MDT 2010
Amen Sister. And this person is complaining about $16? Let her do it herself. Were I back in St. Louis or just plain Missouri, I would laugh this off. These records are all over the place including, In St. Louis anyway, criminal court. I am continually astounded at how some people think these records are just waiting there to be picked up by Miss Newbie.
$16??? I wouldn't even get out of bed for that.
On Jul 29, 2010, at 8:00 AM, Meredith Hoffman / GenerationsWeb wrote:
> "First Papers" is simply the common term for "Declaration of Intention." This is what you file to initiate the process of becoming a citizen.
> After that, there's a waiting period (which was different at different times and under different circumstances); then you file what is commonly called "Final Papers," which is the common term for the "Petition for Naturalization." (Typically, you have to have been in the US continuously for five years, with some exceptions, before you can file the Petition for Naturalization.)
> They are, in fact, two separate documents. Sometimes, they may be filed together at whatever repository you find them, and sometimes they are filed separately. Sometimes, they're not even at the same repository! This is especially true the farther back you go, and before 1906 in particular, when you may find one or both documents filed at any number of local courts, and often not at the same court, and sometimes not in the same state!
> So, as two separate documents, when I charge someone for locating and retrieving "naturalization papers," if I retrieve both, I charge for each one as a separate research cost, with any and all attendant costs (travel, finding the microfilm, locating the record, making the copy, recording the source information, and transcribing it, if that's part of the job request). That's also the case if I'm locating them online; if I'm lucky, I'll find both together when I search for one, but typically, it's two individual searches, ... with two individual charges.
> Personally and professionally, I don't find a charge for $16 to retrieve a Declaration of Intention excessive. Nor is it in any way unethical or shady to charge a separate fee to retrieve any corresponding Petition for Naturalization.
> As for whether the cost is "worth $16 I paid for them" -- these documents are what they are; nobody was trying to "foist" something off on your student. The issue of their value is subjective and that's a whole 'nother conversation....
> With regard to your student saying that she was told to "look on ancestry...then she could find them," I assume that she was told to find the _index_ to the naturalization papers on Ancestry, and with that information it would be possible to retrieve the actual document.
> Hope this helps.
> Meredith Hoffman / GenerationsWeb
> Plymouth, MA
> JGSGB Publicity Chair
> APG profile: http://tinyurl.com/genweb-apg
> Co-editor JewishGen Success! Stories: www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen/testimonials
> GenWeb blog: http://consultant.generationsweb.com
> On 2010Jul28, at 11:29 AM, Leslie Drewitz wrote:
>> Naturalization records have never been my strong suit, but one of my
>> students was having a problem with getting the full file of naturalization
>> records from someone that she had contracted with on Genlighten. It was
>> my impression that the term "First Papers" would net you everything in the
>> file from the declaration up to the oath - but this is not what she's getting.
>> The person that she contracted with just sent her a copy of the
>> declaration and charged her $16. here is what my student said:
>> "..This lady is telling me that the declaration is the first papers and
>> that is what I got. To tell you the truth it was not worth $16 I paid for
>> them. Is that not true.
>> http://www.genealogybranches.com/naturalization.html - this is the link
>> that I got. She told me to go look on ancestry to find the petition papers
>> or final oath then she could find them. Am I still not understanding?..."
>> Could someone clearly define the term "First Papers"?
>> Thank You
>> Leslie Drewitz PLCGS
>> Certified Genealogical Librarian
>> Local History/Genealogy
>> Bloomingdale Public Library
>> 101 Fairfield Way
>> Bloomingdale, Illinois 60108
>> (630) 924-2765
>> LDrewitz at mybpl.org
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